Bail off locomotive brakes. Dec 1, 2021 · Bail the independent off.

Bail off locomotive brakes If you just use your automatic (train brakes) your loco brakes will still set up unless you bail them off, but since theyre air brakes, again depending on train length, all your brakes on the head end will be setting up while your rear end is still released. It’s also important when in dynamic braking, to keep the locomotive wheels turning. Aug 3, 2018 · When the train brake is applied, you can 'bail off' the locomotive's brake cylinder (this will release the locomotive's brakes) by pressing the 'D' key. A locomotive brake control system including train brake and bail-off with hold and/or blending features. Nov 27, 2019 · From this, I infer that you should bail off the independent brake quickly after a set on the train brake. Note that applying the brakes while the locomotive is under dynamic braking will automatically bail off the brakes, and on passenger locomotives, bailing off the brakes will disable blended braking. Mar 16, 2023 · Locomotive braking effort is ulimately limited by adhesion. For those that don't know, Bail-off is supposed to release (or dump) the air out of the brake cylinders of the locomotive. Handle off - disengages the train brake handle making it disabled and unable to input any braking demand. Thanks. It's also important when in dynamic braking, to keep the locomotive wheels turning. From what I understand, the bail off is to release the loco brakes after a train brake application, or possibly prevent the brakes on the loco from applying when the train brakes are applied. If you bail off the locomotive, blended braking will cease because once the brake cylinder pressure line becomes depressurized, because the controller card will think the brakes have been released. The important thing to remember about 26-L and its successors it that they are all self-lapping. If the dynamic brake system is capable of developing near adhesion limit braking effort, then adding locomotive (aka independent) air braking effort at best will not develop any extra braking effort and at worst can lead to sliding wheels and substantially lower braking effort. Release train brake and set independent brake. With the 26 and newer brakes you work by zone, service zone etc, which makes for finer control of the train brakes. Bail-off train brake, verify brakes released. The dynamics will spin back up once the brake cylinder is back to 0. 5), When is a Standing Locomotive Brake Test required? (AMT-3 3. Virtually all locomotives with dynamic brakes have an interlock that kicks the DB off in case of emegrency application. 1-Full Release ( be careful so as to not over fill ) 2-Run 3-LAP 4-Apply 5-Heavy application &/ or, Emergency. That is the only way you can know how much air you are drawing off. 1), When performing a Feb 7, 2025 · Want to master railroad safety? Discover the five critical brake systems that could make or break your success as an engineer. Jul 11, 2023 · I've noticed so far that in all the locomotives, you cannot 'bail-off' the independent brake when using the train brake. 7. On the NYC the holding position was blocked out and could be used as lap. 14,6,24,and 26 type brake all have this feature. In Train Sim World, the bail off button occurs by pushing the independent brakes beyond release. e. American locomotives would probably benefit from a version of the European practice, where the locomotive's friction brake application resulting from the train brake pipe is automatically held off if the dynamic brakes are in operation Feb 12, 2023 · I have noticed, using the AC4400CW that the dynamic brakes are working even if you don't « bail off » the brakes on the locomotive. The Westinghouse Air Brake a 19th century description from the Catskill Archive Electro-pneumatic brakes Vacuum Brake Brakes Glossary Train Equipment On No. Loco air brakes can slide wheels, particularly on bad rail, so engineers try to manage the independent air brakes to avoid sliding wheels to avoid flat spots AND Pressing down the locomotive brake handle prevents the locomotive brakes from applying. The EBV installs in the same mounting envelope as the 26C brake valve located in the engineer’s stand, and is used by the engineer to control the independent brake, automatic brake and bail-off. Feb 21, 2023 · Unless you are constantly watching your brake cylinder gauge, which you almost always are but if you glance away you might find the engine’s brake cylinder pressure creeping up. Mar 10, 2020 · The locomotive brakes may be applied with both the train brake and independent brake. When you apply the main brakes on a really long train, the brakes apply traveling back down the train in a wave. And I understand the independent brake - for the locomotive(s) only. It describes the main components of the system including the Electro-Pneumatic Control Unit (EPCU), Electronic Brake Valve (EBV), Dead Engine Regulator (DER), KE valve, and backup systems. Learn about the different types of train brakes, including air, vacuum, dynamic, electro-pneumatic, and hydraulic brakes, and how they work. 1), When performing a Apr 22, 2020 · What is the difference or reason to use dynamic brakes vs train brakes? Passenger or cargo train? The manual doesn't explain it. "When all brakes are applied automatically, to graduate off or entirely release the locomotive brakes only, use the release position of the independent brake valve. It\'s used with the following brake valves: 26-C, 30-CDW, and the Knorr EAB "valve", not to mention whatever CalTrain has (26-E ?). This is also known as "bailing off" the locomotive brakes. I can bail off and pressure is released. Otherwise, you would destroy the loco. If you don't do this, you'll end up with the locomotive wheels locked and sliding on the rails, doing very little actual braking. Air Brake and Train Handling 2024 When slowing or stopping using air brakes in a train with less than 10 cars, can you actuate (bail off) the Independent Brake? Engineers will generally "bail off" any time there is an application of the automatice brake. It tried it multiple times The blended brake is a feature that only works when you make an automatic brake pipe reduction, reduce the throttle to idle, leave the dynamic brake handle in the "off" position, and do not bail the locomotive brakes. Bailing off refers to releasing the locomotive brakes (but not the cars brakes) after an automatic application. You want the brakes on the locos released to control slack, and prevent the loco wheels from sliding (the loco brakes are more powerful then car brakes). With the Westinghouse 6-ET, 8-ET and 14-EL braking systems, there is a "Release" notch or position for this on the independent brake valve. " Here it explains that partial release of the loco Yea if you don’t bail off after a full application and release, the independent will stay applied even if the handle is in the “release” position. Jun 29, 2023 · Having done this IRL, yes the main reservoirs and brake pipe and associated reservoirs had to be charged properly before moving locomotives or a train, but the only time BC pressure would remain in the locomotive brake cylinders would be if the engineer didn't bail off the locomotive brakes after applying the train brakes. Release train brake, verify brakes released. Indeed, the brake cylinder light flashes in this loco until the independent brake is bailed. Dynamic brakes are applied. More complicated but start with the basics Not completely sure, but I believe it means when you basically set the train brakes, but "bail off" (release all the air on the locomotive) the brakes to the locomotive, so you can power up the locomotive but be pulling the train as its slowing down. Aug 9, 2022 · However, in some locomotives - the SD40T-2 for example, if you have the indy brake applied, but not the train brake, and you hit the bail-off, you will see a slight (maybe 3-5lbs) drop in brake pressure. Page 1 of 1 You cannot start a new topic You cannot reply to this topic Bail-off locomotive brakes by the 254valve's handle Is it possible to model in ORTSRate Topic: #1 Weter Member, Board of Directors Group:ET Admin Posts:8,244 Joined:01-June 20 Gender:Not Telling Simulator:ORTS Country: Posted 31 October 2020 - 05:06 AM The handle of 254 independent brake valve has 6 positions: http I figured it out. Answers 14 hrs confidence: bail off brakes (vs. I especially would like to use it on the Northeast corridor in cab signal territory since you are required to go to full service when the cab signals drop and bailing off the locomotive 4 days ago · Looking at this document it says that the bail off with the independent brake valve of the 6-ET can be graduated in the same way that Weter has described for the 254 brake valve. You want to apply the brakes on the whole train, but then release only the locomotives' brakes. Discover the purpose and components of train brakes and when to use emergency brakes. The independent brake has Release and an Application Zone, where locomotive brake cylinder pressure is proportional to the position of the brake valve handle. Independet loco brake is "independent" as long as train brake is set to 0. Jul 20, 2023 · The correct technique is probably to hold the independent brake handle in Bail-Off while making any train brake application with the dynamic brakes active. Aug 5, 2007 · Engineers will generally “bail off” any time there is an application of the automatice brake. Simple installation The driver’s electronic brake valve (EBV) interfaces with the CCB-26 brake system. Learn all about the different types of train brakes, their importance in ensuring passenger safety and preventing collisions, maintenance tips, common issues, and the latest innovations in braking technology. Train Pipe Pressure (TP) Always remember to use the Bail-Off feature on the Independent brake, to release the friction brakes on the locomotives while using the dynamic brakes. Jan 11, 2025 · I have a consist with Dash 9 / ES44 / Dash 9 in front. Dynamics uses the motor armature as a generator with the fields magnetically opposing the movement. . You need to Bail Off (turn off) the Independent brake when you want to use train air brakes at the same time as dynamics. It makes sense when you understand the Automatic Brake engages the Independent Brake on the locomotives as well as air brakes on the railcars, so basically you need to turn Independent off when using DB. Jul 29, 2020 · When using dynamic braking and an air brake application is made the locomotive engineer is supposed to bail off (release) the air brakes on the locomotive to prevent the sliding of the wheels. When you apply auto brakes, locos apply their air brakes by default. I guess this should not be the case with dynamics in use. This is because the Automatic Brake cuts out the Dynamic Brake as they are two separate systems. A system for automatically performing a bail off of the locomotive brakes in response to certain train braking operations without the need for the train operator to manually bail off the locomotive brakes. Aug 19, 2006 · A technical question - About the Independent Brake. Bailing off the independent somewhat frequently gives the engineer the reassurance that they are released. Mar 1, 2022 · A train with only locomotives can move just fine with an incorrect automatic brake setup—the independent brake handle is able to release the brakes—but won't be able to release the brakes on the rest of the train after it couples with other cars. However, some might have received some dumb information about air brakes back down the line or may have been psychologically traumatized by some misdirected (albeit well intended) presentations about the intricacies and inner workings of air brakes without first having essential knowledge of the basic Apr 21, 2017 · Im a retired locomotive mechanic installing 26L in a big steam engine and I was wondering if the drivers or empty tender would slide wheels in emergency (If I remember correctly it might be 70 psi for a 45psi system) if the engineer forgets to bail off. Thought standard training and past history was to bail off locomotive brakes while using train brakes, as was taught and practiced by thousands of engineers for all the years since the introduction of airbrakes. Dec 19, 2021 · When the train brake is applied, you can 'bail off' the locomotive's brake cylinder (this will release the locomotive's brakes) by pressing the 'D' key. This can snap couplers. If you don´t believe me, just switch game to windowed mode, add -- ShowControlStateDialog to launch options to the game and see it for yourself When a train ("automatic") brake application is made, the locomotive will react the same as any boxcar, applying its brakes. This document provides an overview of the CCB-II electronic air brake system used on Indian diesel locomotives. You cannot with any air brakes applied on the loco. I also infer that it is OK to place a set on the air brakes and ride it for a while. Apply 20 pound train brake, verify brakes applied. For those of you with Rail Drivers, is there a button or whatever on the Rail Driver that serves this purpose When making an application of the train brakes, generally you will bail off (release) the independent or locomotive brakes to prevent overheating or excessive braking from the locomotives. The brake cylinder gauge will drop to 0 but the brake pipe pressure will remain reduced indicating that the car brakes will still be on until the train brake is released and the brake pipe pressure increases to its initial setting (85 psi on CPR freight). Is straight air used to apply locomotive brakes? There is the story of the student fireman who was told that a certain pipe on the engine was the “straight Nov 3, 2025 · But we all know that blended braking causes the locomotive brakes to release anyway, but the automatic "bail off" part of brake blending is not actually a bail off at all; the automatic brake application is not canceled, rather the brake cylinders are vented without venting the brake demand from the automatic brake. It takes a little time for this to occur, so the rule of thumb is ACT (actuate) 5 seconds for each unit in the consist. Or, when running as a lite engine, such as in a yard, service facilities and industrial switching operations or other slow speed operations, all that is needed is the independent for air brake control of the loco. This module will help you set up and use the braking systems so that you can safely and effectively slow, control and stop locomotive and train movement. Aug 3, 2016 · After this actuation occurs the brakes on the locomotive stay released until more air is set on the automatic valve, in which case, again, in an effort to keep the slack stretched a good engineer would bail off. It releases the brakes only on the locomotive when an automatic reduction has already been made. It keeps the brakes released on the locomotives, and is one way to control the slack action in the train. Jan 28, 2007 · When the Engineer further reduced BP pressure, the PT's would reduce the voltage to the BB module, and increase the voltage reference to the dynamic brake module, increasing the dynamic brake effort, and releasing the Locomotive brakes (Bail off the independant). Rule of thumb I follow, always bail off the independent when applying the train brake, until you slow enough and actually need the Feb 17, 2023 · You can apply the locomotive brakes independently of the train brakes (by moving the independent handle with the train brakes released), or release the locomotive brakes while the train brakes are applied (by pushing down on the IBV handle – “bailing off”). When using the train brake the last of the MUed loco will apply its independent brake. Bail-Off is a US term for releasing the the locomotive brakes whilst the train brakes remain applied. Don Allender, snow approaching for weekend. Other railways have it set Also one element of the "bailing off" the locomotives brakes when them came on during an automatic brake application was to keep the slack stretched immediatly behind the locomotive (s) as that mimicked the situation for slack before the brakes were applied. A way back when, an Alco S2, had the follow positions on the Train Brake Handle. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. release) aflojar los frenos Oct 29, 2012 · The air brake system is specifically designed NOT to lock up the wheels during emergency brake applications. When the train brake is applied, you can 'bail off' the locomotive's brake cylinder (this will release the locomotive's brakes) by pressing the 'D' key. Holding and blending reservoirs are computer simulated. May 16, 2021 · So for the dynamic brakes to work, you need to bail-off the locomotive brakes every time you move the auto brake handle as well, or only if you applied loco brake? Air Brakes for Dummies Not that anyone volunteering on the Sumpter Valley Railway is a dummy. I’m still about two steps from the right hand seat, and the accompanying When "keyboarding it", the independent (i. From back to forward they were as follows. I believe this is done to try to minimize the amount of slack action in between the cars. On some 6 and 14 brakes they blocked out Mar 23, 2017 · Your train brakes and locomotives brakes apply as fast and at max pressure! Train slams to a halt and thankfully it was a tree branch on the tracks…your fired now! the locomotive brakes won't bail off if the dynamic brake is applied after making a train brake application. The other is the arrangement of the independent locomotive brake: on the 6 BL it is integral and the locomotive brakes are applied when the train brakes are applied (and are normally bailed off), on the A-1 the locomotive brakes are completely independent. Using the automatic brake will also set up the engine brakes unless you "bail it off". Nick You don’t “bail off” when using dynamic brakes. Some others might be able to word it better than I. If not enough then apply some Automatic Brake but make sure you bail off the Independent Brake just after. 1. However, the engineer can override, or "bail-off" application on the locomotive. Apr 26, 2017 · Engineers will generally "bail off" any time there is an application of the automatice brake. What I’m hazy on is the relationship of the two - specifically where it comes to “bailing off” the independent. Earlier units, you had to bail off the independent (aka actuate the brakes) to get the air off the cylinders. Sep 28, 2011 · The reason you bail off the independent brake to release the engine brakes (except when coming to a stop) is to prevent sliding wheels, which would create flat spots; and reduce the chances of excessive slack run-in, which could result in a derailment/track damage if severe enough. What loses the air are multiple sets and releases. This does not at all reflect real life, because in real life, when using the automatic/train brake, locomotive engineers are taught to 'bail-off' the independent/loco brake for reasons of slack control, and in-game, plays a major part in preventing sliding the wheels in wet Jun 20, 2009 · On the SD45 and RailDriver Independent brake there is also a Release or Bail Off position which releases the automatic operation off the engine brakes, with out releasing the rest off the train air brakes, Maybe used when decoupling from a parked train? Jul 27, 2019 · Bail Off - when train brake is used, moving loco brake to bail off, disengages the loco only brakes. Mar 16, 2017 · Bail off is used to release the locomotive brakes but not the train brakes in any Automatic Brake service reduction scenario. It is just a good habit to get into when making an automatic reduction. i. It also puts less wear and tear on the locomotive brake shoes, so they don't have to be replaced as often. Study with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing terms like After completing the initial automatic brake pipe reduction when slowing or stopping using air brakes, and you need to make additional reductions in a train with less than 10 cars, can you actuate (bail off) the Independent Brake? (AMT-3, 2. Dec 1, 2021 · Bail the independent off. This allows your Brake Cylinders to apply to the length of the train, but will release the brakes on the Locomotive, allowing the Dynamic Brake (Traction Motor) to carry on. 2. Nov 29, 2021 · When the train brake is used, the dynamic brakes are automatically shut down because the loco also starts braking. That's called the bail off function. This actually is modeled correctly which is nice. Train Pipe Pressure (TP) When slowing or stopping using air brakes in a train with less than 10 cars, can you actuate (bail off) the Independent Brake? Have you been confused about what the automatic brake does versus the independent brake? You're not the only one! This video is a short explanation detailing what each does and how to use them Sep 6, 2009 · Bailing off releases the locomotive brakes while keeping the train brakes applied. An arrangement for enhancing a bail-off function a railway vehicle comprising, a non-recoverable bail-off circuit for supplying an output signal to a brake cylinder calculation circuit when a bail-off condition a freight operating mode, a drop in brake pipe pressure is present, and an emergency brake state is absent, a recoverable bail-off circuit for supplying an output signal to the brake Do you set up the brakes on the diesel just like it was a piece of rolling stock or can you also bail off the independent on the diesel in case of a emergency brake application. The Dynamic Brake Interlock (DBI) has been around a very long time. Normally, in braking for a stop, the engineers allow the train brakes to apply, but press down the engine brake so that the locomotives will pull slightly against the load behind, keeping the slack between cars stretched out. In TSW3, when brakes were applied on the loco trucks, the dynamic brake wouldn't provide any traction, and we couldn't hear the engine revving up (or if dynamic brakes were previously engaged, we were hearing it revving down). C: Full brake cylinder pressure and emergency brake effort must be Bail off is pretty much when you release the brakes on the locomotive (s) after making a brake application with the automatic handle. It also explains the six operating modes of the system: Lead Cut-In, Helper, Test, Trail Cut Jan 21, 2010 · I am not an expert either but the 6,8,14, 24 or any position brake always has an equalizing res. Vacuum Brake description from the Railcar website. Engineers will generally "bail off" any time there is an application of the automatice brake. It is a vital function when doing brake tests and in dynamic braking. The brake cylinder pressure on the locomotive is actually a "trigger" for the blended braking to kick in. With air applied, the combined force of the brake shoes and the counter emf of the motors would lock up the axles and 2 days ago · Brake/Train Handling Question Moderators: Rick Rowlands, tomgears, Randy Hees Page 1 of 1 [ 12 posts ] Apr 27, 2018 · As long as train brake is applied, both loco and train valves are filled up proportionally to brake amount. You can dynamic brake with automatic brakes applied on the train. The system includes a controller that is programmed to determine when an appropriate train braking operation has been requested and to issue commands to the locomotive braking system to Not completely sure, but I believe it means when you basically set the train brakes, but "bail off" (release all the air on the locomotive) the brakes to the locomotive, so you can power up the locomotive but be pulling the train as its slowing down. Regulate brake cylinder pressure to prevent sliding wheels. 3. Possjble derailment. I noticed one day with MSTS that my train seemed to stop quicker going downhill if I applied the independent brake in addition to the These 'air messages' are sent through this pipe when a locomotive consist is all connected--hence all locomotives in the consist release or "bail off" engine brakes to keep the train slack in control. Check to make sure I haven't done something stupid like forget about DBI feature vs independent brakes vs automatic brakes OR with AC locos have I placed the locos in full dynamics to slow the train down and released the independent brakes?. 16. 19 when an Automatic Brake application is made, the locomotive brakes are also applied, and the Engineer has to “bail” or release the Independent so that the locomotive will continue to move the train. A preliminary brake cylinder pressure control signal is provided to the propulsion system which provides a blending signal as a function of the preliminary brake control signal and dynamic braking. I understand the operation of the train brake - I can even explain it to people. Apr 29, 2024 · Short cycle braking is the method of placing the automatic brake into the minimum set position, bailing off the independent, thereby letting the air out of the train line for a few seconds which starts to place a small set on the train brakes. You must “bail off” engine brake to release all locomotive (s) brake cylinder pressure that develops during an automatic brake Using this feature the engineer can hold off or release the automatic application on locomotive units only while leaving train brakes applied. To prevent this, you manually bail off the loco brakes so that the dynamic brake remains active and can be used together with the train brake. It's pretty much used for controlling slack and train handling purposes. 6. The 'bail' was a bar over a button that when depressed, keeps loco brakes from applying from use buy the train's automatic air brakes. North American Freight Train Brakes by Al Krug Train Brakes page on this site. After an automatic brake valve initiated emergency brake application, which of the following procedures should the engineer follow regarding locomotive brake cylinder pressure? Release all brake cylinder pressure. Dec 25, 2021 · Using different brake types togheter It's generally not a bad idea to bail off the indipendent brake when the train air brake is applied for US freight as the brakes take so much longer to evenly apply on the whole train lenght, and again we don't want the back of the train to smash into the front of the train. Can you bail off the engine brakes on DPU units just as you can up front - for that matter, would you want to do this? A few years ago, I was on the Needles Subdivision when a manifest train went into emergency after the DPU locomotives (positioned at the very rear) separated from the train. I think it applies to all the Stretch braking definition: maintaining locomotive motive power while making a reduction on ther automatic brake valve while at the same time keeping the locomotive brakes off by holding the independent in the "bail-off" position. , "locomotive brakes") are bailed off when setting the automatic air by using the forward slash ( / ) command. The independent system also provides a bail off mechanism, which releases the brakes on the lead locomotives without affecting the brake application on the rest of the train. Apparently irl the SD70ACe disables the dynamics if the independent brake is applied (since the loco brakes work against the dynamics), which applies with the auto brake. To "bail off" the locomotive brakes, the handle is depressed. So, for balanced braking, I either start off with the dynamic Dynamic Brakes on. 26-F Control Valve Description: Responds to changes in brake pipe pressure to provide a locomotive brake application on one locomotive Includes a quick release valve to provide actuate or bail-off of train brakes Jun 23, 2018 · 100% Correct Function. ycnvzyi ibpk vnkzjz pxk omdhcv rwbgzr chdqy dtecrd bms aessuk rniuc mezurfng gtu cko rexcamj